Why do some people don't believe in the statistics about rape and still blame the women?

I am really at a loss.


You find terrifying statistics about raped women, from serious sites as Amnesty International and UNICEF.


Still some don't want to believe them, I don't really understand the reason.


Perhaps I understand a little bit better why some blame women for being the victims of rape, as it comes from religious misconceptions about women, that although began centuries ago, it is still with us today.





I am honestly curious, why this blindness exists.





If the high statistic would be about men being raped, would it be different? Like for example men raped in prisons are not blamed as "looking for it" for displaying their arms or such.





Thoughts?





More links?

Why do some people don't believe in the statistics about rape and still blame the women?
Wow. Amazing. To the posters who answer with "you can't see the problem with feminism even though the proof is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE" I have to laugh. Real proof--legitimate academic studies, are still not proof enough unless it's to confirm something some of you believe. You're going to dismiss Amnesty International? Please. And once again, the whole women wouldn't be raped if they didn't bring it on themselves theory--amazing. So all the men I know who were raped as children by men did something to cause it? Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Do people who have been murdered deserve it because they just shouldn't have been where they were? They brought it on themselves? It is incredible how some of you supposed adults respond by a) dismissing the poster, b) dismissing studies recognized by most countries in the world, c) dismissing the very act itself, d) dismissing the humanity of women and their autonomy to do any bloody thing they want without the fear of someone destroying their lives.





While rape may not be as significant as the forum's obsession with men getting kicked in the groin, it's pretty significant to most people who have any degree of compassion and ability to think. The 1/4 stat makes sense and I have never, ever heard of a woman making this kind of thing up--why would we? So we can go to court and be further victimized? I know what that process is all about and no woman would voluntarily put herself through that unless she's sick to begin with. In fact, if anything, the stats are underrepresentative of rape because often women just don't pursue charges. It's just too soul-destroying to try to get justice in cases of rape. Plus we have to deal with this kind of mental midgetry as it is expressed by cops, the judicial system, and pretty well everyone involved in protecting the rapist and further victimizing the survivors.





For whatever reason, people on this forum find hilarity and lightness in the subject, and some of us have to write these long messages that, in many cases, come from personal experience. There is no lightness in this topic. I can laugh and joke with the best of them, but I do not find the dismissal of this kind of thing funny or clever. Two women on one of our campuses here were raped the first week of school. What a nice way to begin the school year, no? It's attitudes like the ones expressed above that allow the continuance of women being afraid to say anything for fear they won't be taken seriously. Yes, people lie. I'm sure there are cases of people lying about having been raped. So that means none of them are legitimate? Four generations of women in my family were raped. Four generations. Every single female I know was sexually assaulted. Every one. And I know a lot of people in a lot of different arenas of life. I honestly cannot fathom how you people can continue to say that everyone's lying. Either you have no trust of anyone or you have been so badly damaged in your lives that you cannot see that others have experienced their own kinds of pain.





I guess I don't know why I'm bothering answering this because it's just more of the same old, same old. The stats FH presents are recognized by people who are far more important than you are, so I'll take their word for it, thanks.


Thanks for the posting flyinghorse. And for what it's worth, depicting you as a misandrist and purveyor of hatred couldn't be further from the truth.
Reply:The basic problem in determining occurrence of rape is that every "official" site (sexist or not) has very different statistics.


Which one chooses to believe depends on their particular prejudice.





Politically correct feminists claim false rape accusations are rare and account for only 2 percent of all reports. Men's rights sites point to research that places the rate as high as 41-50 percent. These are wildly disparate figures that cannot be reconciled.





Susan Brownmiller made the statement that only 2% of all rape claims were false in her book "Against Our Will" (1975) but without valid basis for that claim based on the findings of beat police officers only and in only one precinct of NYC.





Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University. Kanin examined 109 rape complaints registered in a Midwestern city from 1978 to 1987.





Of these, 45 were ultimately classified by the police as "false." Also based on police records, Kanin determined that 50 percent of the rapes reported at two major universities were "false."





Both Brownmiller's and Kanin's results were based on a small fraction of the population and thereby, both should be viewed with skepticism.





Then without going into those who have been falsely accused, tried and convicted of rape being about 20%, I'd say there is much error in the claim that 1 in 4 (or 1 in 3) women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime.





Actually, although there are some who do, few people "blame the victim" in regards to rape and sexual assault whether the victim is male or female.





In 2004, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) examined administrative records from adult and juvenile facilities at State and local levels. According to these official records, slightly more than 8,000 male, female, and juvenile inmates—or 0.005 percent of the total incarcerated population—reported that they had been victims of sexual violence while incarcerated. An even smaller percentage of inmates' claims were substantiated (Beck and Hughes, 2004)





"According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, there were 102,560 reported rapes or attempted rapes in 1990.





The Bureau of Justice Statistics estimates that 130,000 women were victims of rape in 1990.





A Harris poll sets the figure at 380,000 rapes or sexual assaults for 1993.





According to a study by the National Victims Center, there were 683,000 completed forcible rapes in 1990.





The Justice Department says that 8 percent of all American women will be victims of rape or attempted rape in their lifetime.





The radical feminist legal scholar Catharine MacKinnon, however, claims that "by conservative definition rape happens to almost half of all women at least once in their lives."





Who's right?
Reply:The Guardian this morning has an essay about young women entering 'the best-boob' contests in Lad Magazines - sending in their own snaps - even putting soft porn pictures of themselves in YouTube.


I lead a sheltered life so it surprised me that this was commonplace, but in the light of so much rape, I felt my head shifting towards the words "asking for it".





www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0,1181... -





Decca Aikenhead, the same journalist, wrote in the Guardian on 5th August this year, about the number of occasions Rohypnol had been blamed for rape on only to discover their blood tests detected only 26 cases out of over 1,000. It makes the girls look stupid, but Decca remarked that the real truth is that the shocking statement by feminists who said "all men are rapsists" were closer to the truth than we expected. SOMEBODY rapes these girls.





http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/story/0...
Reply:As a woman, I am one of those who doubts the validity of some of the accusations of rape.





I don't believe that women 'deserve it' if they dress provocatively, or walk in the wrong neighbourhoods. Certainly, they are displaying foolish judgement in doing so, but they certainly don't deserve to be raped as a result.





But I know of several women who have 'cried rape' when, in fact, it just wasn't the truth. And I know of other cases where there was consent in the act by both parties, and then the woman changed her mind. Admittedly, it was a bit of a test, as she put it. She wanted to see how much control she had over the guy.





These are not isolated incidents...these do happen...all the time. And its occuring in young women...who seem to think that this is acceptable. They discuss it amongst themselves and share stories about it! This kind of behavior has led to feelings of grave mistrust among men, and rightly so. No, these girls/women don't represent ALL women, but sadly, I am learning that it is more prevalent than I thought. And knowing these things has brought about a mistrust in me regarding the honesty and sincerity of many claims of rape.
Reply:Well you will probably hear this often if you haven't heard it already but it is said that in most cases the victim knows the raper and in those cases the woman may be sending messages that may or may not be meant to be read the way that they are recieved, ie a woman may have a male friend that likes her and she doesn't know it and may get more comfortable around that male than needed then he acts on it and gets his feelings hurt. Then those hurt feelings turn in to negative aggressive behavior
Reply:.In other societies and unfortunately in some segments of our society, women are still considered chattels or less than human. I don't know if rape is even in their vocabulary. All through history women have been considered as part of the spoils of war. In Western civilization I think that in order for us to change thinking amongst men about rape, women have to change. their thinking. Too often women are ashamed, feel that maybe somehow it was their fault and in some cases don't even realize it was rape. The concept no means no has to be firmly placed in the minds of both men and women. I have even used the phrase on my husband. Oh the trolls will come out of the woodwork now. {In Iran 75% of the university students are women even though the government has just passed a law that only 50% can be women these educated women will be heard.} Education is the one thing that can create change all over the world. To this end it's important for the U.S. to impose better educational standards. Since the federal gov. has taken over the educational system Math and Science scores have plummet to almost the bottom of all the countries in the world. We are allowing ourselves to be educated by mass media which does nothing but tell lies and anesthsize our senses so we can no longer think for ourselves.
Reply:I feel sorry for those guys who answered previously coz being men, they think women make a lot too much outta rape. First of all, rape of any kind is WRONG! And as Malimer (an answerer below) says, "Who the hell do we think we are to say, 'a certain person deserved to be raped'? "


I would like to mention though that each and every woman (mark my words) undergoes molestation OR sexual abuse OR rape at least once in her life!


I've been a victim of groping in public places myself when I was a teen and trust me, I'm an Indian and here women cover themselves head-to-toe and still get groped or harassed.


I've watched 'The Accused' and it's my personal opinion that rape is not a result of some kinda 'direct or indirect invitation' by women. COME ON PEOPLE, SAY NO TO FORCED SEX OF ANY KIND!
Reply:How about you come back here with their SPECIAL loaded surveys and statistics and show us. We will then point out how they are loaded to get the outcome they wanted before anybody has put pen to paper.





Please do.





edit


Sorry I meant if you chose one then we know that you believe it. Then we will help you understand how they came to their conclusions and how the survey/stat was loaded to come to that outcome.





edit


LaBelleFelicia!


Now we have you saying 100% of women geez. Im sorry it may have happened to you but that does not in any sense mean every single woman. Please give us your special survey/stats that you used to come to that outcome.





edit


bibsian


It is virtually impossible to come to the 1 in 4 women stat. Looking at what you said 900 rapes in Scotland, I read 576 but we will go with 900.


5000000 population and half that, women 2500000


times your 900 rapes by 80 years life expectancy = 72000 rapes in 80 years now divide the womens population by the amount of rapes over 80 years and you get 1 woman in 34. Now just try to get some sort of figure from rapes not recorded??? rapes that are falsely reported ??? rapes that are reported that are from a single woman on mulitple occasions ???


I doubt you could get anywhere near 1 in 4 women are raped in their lifetime.
Reply:in scotland there were 900 accusations of rape of which only 30 resulted in prosecution





so theres either a lot of woman who are liars , or there are a lot of rapists gettting away with it





i think its the second option





especially when ( i am ashamed to say ) in a survey over 50 percent of people thought women were " asking for trouble " if they drank to much , or wore skimpy clothes





all i can say is i am glad i am a man because i go out in a t-shirt and get very drunk quite a lot





all the best


Ian
Reply:Leaving aside the issue of whether the woman is at fault you haven't even mentioned what you think the statistic is.. if you think it is "1 in 4 women have been raped" the only study that ever said that has been debunked hard.





Go on go get your stupid misandric study that has these "high" statistics and we'll show you why it's a lie.





By the way Amnesty International is NOT a serious site. It USED to be a serious human rights organisation.. ever since it elected Irene Khan, a radical feminist, as it's International Secretary it has been completely ruined and turned into a misandric feminist mouthpiece. First thing she did was instate a "Stop Violence Against Women" campaign which blames domestic violence on men completely and espouses FALSE STATISTICS.





To put it simply nobody is interested in your misandric lies.
Reply:I do believe in the OFFICIAL statistics about rape and not in a "research" of some feminist institution with an axe to grind. As for Unicef none of them said that 30% of women in America or Europe get raped.
Reply:On one side there are those women who have been raped and and are very angry and see every male and female sexual encounter as potential rape. Also the women who come into contact with these "victims" on a daily basis. For example, it is generally noted that police officers see most people as potential criminals because they come into contact with criminals every day. Also women in women's refuge see battered women on a daily basis and see this as the norm.





On the other side are the men who abhor rape. Who have never raped and will never rape and all their male friends and acquaintances who are not rapists either. They hear of the odd rape in the news, but not in their daily lives. They view the statistics as being out of step with their own experiences.





Just some thoughts and ideas.
Reply:there are high statistics of men being raped in prison...but i really think that noone wants to listen because most people dont like to worry about it. People just want to live happy lives and pretend nothing will happen and they can go to work and come home and be perfectly safe. If everyone freaks out about rape, then why are they not freaking out about murder, or suicide? The government might put more money into police and protection agencies but there is only so much they can do.
Reply:I can't believe how many pathetic answers I'm seeing.


Rape is wrong, bottom line! So why do some fools lay the blame on the woman for the way she dresses?? That's insane!


If a car is sitting there with the keys in the ignition, does that make it OK to steal it? Is it the cars fault if it gets stolen? Sure, the temptation might be there for a care thief, the same way the sexual temptation is there for a man that sees a beautiful woman. You can't go having sex with people without their consent! The same way you can't go driving off in someones car without the owners consent! I know it's a silly analogy, but sometimes silly is the only way to get your point across to some moron that places the woman at fault if she is raped.


There is no excuse for rape.


Plenty of young boys are molested and raped also, and I feel you don't hear about that quite so often because it may be a little more difficult for a man to disclose his ordeal to friends, family or counselors. I'm not saying it's easy for a woman.


With prison rape, thats a whole other topic. That's solely about domination, ownership, and degrading another inmate.


Though I'm sure that the domination/degradation thing might play a factor in some rape cases outside prison also. But for the most part I think that prison rape, and rape outside prison don't have much in common as far as cause, or why a person would rape another person. The affect on the victims is much the same though.





It really all come down to morals, ethics, and doing the right thing. And something called self control!


Anyone who blames the woman should really be ashamed of themselves.
Reply:1) Disagree with them, that the women who are raped have any fault at all. That's awful, and I feel bad for these victims. It's not the women's fault when she is raped





2) I disagree with those who state that it happens as often as claimed, as examples have been explained on this question from others.





3) I disagree with you blaming religion for anything. I've seen churches helped battered women, and so on.... so don't jump on the bandwagon of attacking the church.





4) You could turn this around and say "Why do some people don't believe in the statistics about false accusations of rape and still blame the men?" or "Why are the statistics inflated to give men a bad image?" Both your statement and my statement are still egalitarian, but from different perspectives. This is where the controversy lies.... you must consider that on an individual basis, most guys would have compassion for a woman who was raped, and most women would have compassion for a guy who was falsely accused. Just because a guy disagrees with the statistics, does that make him a 'pro-rapist', or 'anti-victim'? I would say not.
Reply:It's partially a problem of definitions. Obviously, if a conservatively dressed woman is walking along and some guy she's never met grabs her from behind, holds a knife to her throat, pulls her into an alley, and rapes her, then that's bad. But if a woman isn't really in the mood to have sex, but her husband has sex with her anyway, that's not as bad. Some people would consider both of those things to be rape. Some people consider the first to be rape, but don't consider the second to be rape. I propose that we need different words for both of those things (and for a few other types as well), so that we could have an intelligent discussion of the statistics behind the first type, without getting distracted by disagreements over the second type.





Also, if a man in prison was walking around in a provocative outfit, shaking his a$s in front of other prisoners, then people might blame him for looking for the rape. But men don't usually do that.
Reply:I am at a loss also.


Who can understand the machinations of some peoples brains!
Reply:It really makes me angry to read Gun Fanatic's response. I was going to see my boyfriend when I was raped in a parking lot - wearing shorts that went to my knees (hello - August in TX) and big Gap t-shirt. Does that mean I deserved it?





I'm sick and tired of saying I am a victim of this; so as of now I will no longer say it. It happened, I survived it, it's in the past, and it's NOT my fault. No matter what YOU think, I KNOW what happened.





Rape is sexual intercourse against a person’s will. WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHO DESERVES IT?





It seems the anger comes from not only the statistics (it doesn't matter WHERE you get them - men won't believe you) but also from the stigma of being heaped into a generalization that makes men look extremely negative, thereby the adage "All men are such________(enter explicative here)".


They have never raped anyone; they don't THINK they'd KNOW anyone who could do such a thing.





And that's OK - my friends shock me sometimes with the stuff they tell me.





But just because you don't believe DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. AND I MEAN THIS FOR MEN TOO.





However - I am sick of the attitude of anyone who EVER says someone deserved it, brought it on, etc.


GET a CLUE!
Reply:Women are at fault when it come to rape, there are ways to avoid rape but they refuse to do it. Don't dress like a tramp when you're out in public, problem solve. Plus, every single feminist out there claim that they are being rape, so I don't sympathize them one bit.

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